THE SCI-FI PODCAST EP 15: The Origins of Star Wars

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Flash Gordon ComicWelcome to The SciFi Podcast, a wretched hive of scum and villainy a bi-weekly podcast focused on in-depth discussion of all things Science Fiction. The SciFi Podcast features three hosts—Mattroid, Solo, and Station!—and frequent guests. Each episode we look at a science fiction theme or franchise and take the discussion where no show has gone before.

This episode we’re joined again by SpaceWolf for a deep discussion of the origins of Star Wars from Flash Gordon to The Hero’s Journey and more.

Theme music courtesy of I Hear Sirens, featuring Matt on bass and Liz on keyboard. Hear more of I Hear Sirens ethereal, instrumental, post-rock at BandCamp. Podcast production by Mattroid. Artwork by SpaceWolf.

Recommended supplementary content below:

VIDEO: Star Wars/Hidden Fortress Comparison
SALT LAKE COMIC CON BLOG: Star Wars and the Hero’s Journey
STARWARS.COM ARTICLES BY BRYAN YOUNG:
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: The Bridge on the River Kwai
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: 2001: A Space Odyssey
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: The Guns of the Navarone
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: Gone with the Wind
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: The 7th Voyage of Sinbad
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: Citizen Kane
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: Horror of Dracula
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: Casablanca
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: The Dam Busters
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: The Godfather
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: Treasure of the Sierra Madre
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: Eye of the Needle
-The Cinema Behind Star Wars: The Battle of the Bulge

TSFP flashstarTSFP bridgestar
TSFP 2001 Hyperspace
TSFP Metropolis
Flash Gordon 36 Colorized
TSFP Hidden Fortress Peasants
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69 thoughts on “THE SCI-FI PODCAST EP 15: The Origins of Star Wars”

  4. Hey guys, there’s a problem with the file.

    It’s not playing in the little player, when you download it it’s a 0kb file, and I checked on iTunes and it’s not working there either.

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  6. I find it hilarious that you guys have so many technical difficulties when your topic of choice is science fiction AND you have an actual man of science on board haha. And I’m not making fun of you. I just find it charming 🙂

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    • It’s just random. I’ve never had tech issues on MSC (where I do everything) or HMP (where I do a lot of things). I think there’s just a period of working out the bugs. This is only the 15th episode, afterall, and the backend of TSFP is a little bit different than the others, so issues arose early on that I’d never seen, but a lot of them were just human error on my part.

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    • It never specifically mentions he wants to enlist with the “Empire.” This is an argument I’ve had with friends for years; is Luke a sympathizer and only after Ben does he become sympathetic with the Rebels instead?

      Seems unlikely; his character is too pure and simple to add that touch. To me, that is.

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      • The bigger point was that he just wanted to get away. Rash, possibly a little narcissistic, behavior that led his dad towards a glossy black plastic samurai helmet.

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    • This is true. “the Academy” (George Lucas has said) was supposed to be the Imperial Academy. A military school that Luke’s friend Biggs joins and then defects to the Rebellion. Which raises two questions…1) What the heck would’ve happened if a Skywalker enlisted in the Imperial Academy!? Wouldn’t that raise some eyebrows? And 2) Along the same lines, if they’re trying to hide Luke with the Lars family, why wasn’t his last name Lars? AND why wasn’t Leah’s last name Skywalker!?!?

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      • AND apparently I’m not totally right here, allow me to correct my hasty mistakes:
        “He didn’t plan to join the Imperial Navy. He wanted to go the Imperial Academy. This is a government run flight school, apparently for non-military but government run ships, but isn’t part of the military itself. Remember Biggs and Porkins also joined the Academy but were recruited to the Rebellion.

        This is made even more clear in the Star Wars radio drama when Biggs visits Luke on Tattooine and confirms all of the above. Luke expresses an interest at that time to join the Rebellion, encouraged by Biggs, and this leads to his petitioning his uncle to join the Academy in the next year.”

        I never heard the radio stuff, but the deleted scene from A New Hope I just found where Biggs and Luke are talking about this confirms all of the above.

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      • “1) What the heck would’ve happened if a Skywalker enlisted in the Imperial Academy!? Wouldn’t that raise some eyebrows?”

        Well, you could argue that’s a huge reason why Uncle Owen kept making excuses for why Luke had to stick around. I suppose that does create a question. Had Uncle Owen not been fried would he have allowed Luke to enlist the following year like he told him or would there just be another excuse?

        As far as the Skywalker name, how popular of a surname was it back a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away? If it’s as popular and common of a name as Jones or Smith, there probably isn’t much harm in letting Luke keep his original name. It’s even possible there were several Skywalker’s already at the academy that wasn’t related to Darthy at all.

        For Leai, because she came from a prominent family, they probably felt the need to shield her just a little more than some random kid growing up in the mean moisture farms of Tatooine.

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  8. I’ve been enjoying this podcast for the past month or so, going back and listening to some of the previous shows here and there. I commented on your Bill and Ted episode and have was VERY excited to hear this episode and the topics that were brought up. I am a big proponent of the Star Wars is Fantasy theory, but there is no doubt that Star Wars has had a huge impact on the way people view sci-fi films and the kind of budgets studios will offer a film maker.

    With that said: I’d really love to hear a bigger discussion on the influence of those old Pulp-type films and serials on Sci-Fi in general: Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Commando Cody, Radar Men, and so on so forth.

    Also, maybe a look at some of the Star Wars knock-offs that came out shortly after the film… Starchaser: The Legend of Orrin, Disney’s “The Black Hole”, Battle Beyond the Stars, etc etc.

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      • RedCapJack,

        Thanks for coming back! I loved your B&T comments, so I’m glad to see you brought it again.

        Agreed; I’d have loved to have gotten into more of the serials, more into the knock-offs (which we discussed early on before recording quite a bit), but in the effort of trying to get out content in a timely manner AND balance each of our absurdly busy schedules, we didn’t make it happen. However, there is more Star Wars talk to come, and some of that is on the plate.

        I’m happy to see you are on the Fantasy train, because it’s a legit peek at the story/franchise. It’s obviously taken as sci-fi, and clearly paved the way for the space-faring genre, but it’s first and foremost fantasy to me.

        Also, Black Hole rules.

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        • I do love The Black Hole… great take on the Captain Nemo story set in space, and I love the wonky ending. Looking forward to future episodes and one interesting note on those knockoffs… the movie Krull not only tries to emulate the fantasy as Sci-Fi elements, but it also features the future Qui Gon Jin in the role of a ruthless mercenary. =)

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  11. Was anyone else hoping that the boy’s website SpaceWolf mentioned in the epilogue just a blank page with the words “HAHAHAHAHA… gotcha” in large typeface?

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  12. This episode was a lot of fun, and the discussion was stellar. Solo really brought it with his theme of the hero’s journey. That was fantastic. Across the board, the level of preparation for this one must have been extensive.

    Well done boys and girl.

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  13. In regards to Solo’s (I think? Maybe Matt, but I’m pretty sure Solo) comments about Leia being a B, despite the fact that Han Solo was showing attitude too, I agree with Solo. Even though they both had attitudes like Josh said, Leia’s attitude came across as being different since she was there to be saved. Even after they save her, it’s still a matter of getting her back to safety. Yet, during all of this, she has some attitude. For Han, he doesn’t care about any of this. He’s mostly just an impartial third party that is just doing a job. Luke and company needed Han more than Han needed them. You can’t say the same for Leia.

    The lesson in all of this? Maybe drop the ‘tude if someone is coming to save you.

    Leia is still insanely likable for being a strong woman that isn’t just a damsel in distress.

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      • Ah my mistake.

        To be fair, she is a princess. So she’s probably used to a certain lifestyle, a certain type of people to be allowed around her, and for everyone to kiss her…hair buns. She did help out a lot so she’s not as bad as she could have been.

        The personalities of those three main characters do fit their backgrounds well.

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  17. I’m a little stunned by the people who say that it’s “unoriginal”. It’s STAR WARS! Do these same people go to the new James Bond and get mad that he’s still a spy chasing down a bad guy bent on world domination? What did they want, MORE legislation speak? I have much more to say about this…maybe I’ll get to vent on a show. If not, expect one hell of a post in the future! hahahaha. GO SEE STAR WARS

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  18. Just imagine the endless fun that could be had if that blaster bolt Kylo froze was permantley there…Triple dog dare your buddies to stick their tongue on it…roasting marshmallows on an open blaster bolt…free bug zapper…a mean game of extreme limbo…drunken bonfire around the blaster bolt…

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    • Hey, that mic is expensive. Be careful with the tapping.

      In other words, has anyone watched the TV show, Dark Matter? I’ve been watching it on Netflix and so far (2 episodes in) I’m enjoying it.

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  21. Hey everyone,

    Two episodes coming out this week. My family (Station!, toddler and I) all had pneumonia for two solid weeks, which prevented us from doing much of anything. Combine that with the holidays, and there you have it.

    Thanks for your patience. Lots of good stuff coming your way soon. Hope everyone had a great holiday season, and happy new year.

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  22. Sorry to hear that, I’ve had pneumonia before and I was not pretty. Looking forward to everyone’s thoughts and insights on Ep VII

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  23. I thought we did a pretty good job here with the time allowed but, along with the linked articles from Bryan Young, Michael Heilemann has set a new high watermark.

    If you haven’t yet heard of him, Michael Heilemann is writing a book called Star Wars: Kitbashed which is, in his words, “an exhaustive analysis of the sources of inspiration that led to the creation of Star Wars, covering everything from Lucas’s earliest student films, european cinema of the time, westerns (american and italian), samurai films, war films, comic books, artists, composers, and so on and so forth, up to and including the release of the film that changed the world.”

    In the meantime, he’s released a feature length cut of A New Hope mashed-up with the film’s influences. For my tastes, I wish the video was more heavy on shots from the influences than from the original film, but it’s still very interesting for the film fanatic. It’s almost like a cinephile pop-up vide. You’re mainly sitting down to watch A New Hope, but you get some interesting intercut footage. According to Heilemann:

    “The full-length Star Wars: Kitbashed has been doing the rounds generally to a fantastic reception. It’s odd to me in a sense, because it was always more of a ‘work print’ for me to perform my research with, and to harvest the occasional shorter scene or sequence comparison from for use on this site. That I turned it into something that could be seen by others was more of an afterthought. For me it was always the research in itself that was the prize, and the resulting book. In the context of it as it exists then, it’s meaning is not just what things Lucas and his team brought over into it, but the very fact that film history itself is rich and deep! Before ILM made X-Wings fly, the Brits filmed giant Lancaster bombers flying low over the water for real! It’s about taking a longer look at how model shots have evolved over the years and how the same kinds of shots have been used for decades to great effect. It’s about how John Wayne almost poked a horse’s eye out with a spear, he was so busy acting disgruntled! It’s about that awe-inspiring final shot in THX 1138, which quite frankly should be in an art gallery. It’s not just about what’s in Star Wars, it’s about showing love and appreciation for all these other sources.”

    STAR WARS: KITBASHED

    https://vimeo.com/90747105

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    • Oh, and if you are wondering about the title:

      “Kitbashing is the technique of using bits from off-the-shelf model kits to detail custom-built models. It was a technique perfected during the production of Star Wars. It’s also the title I chose for my book about how George Lucas and his artists perfected the process of transforming existing books, comics, movies and ideas into the fantasy spectacular that is Star Wars.”

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