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Hey, space cadets! We’re bringing you some off-schedule bonus content. Hang on because it’s gonna be a wild ride!
Our podcast normally features three hosts—Mattroid, Solo and Station!—looking at a specific science fiction theme or franchise. But in this special bonus episode we’re doing things a little differently. Here, Mattroid, Solo and Station! are joined by Brain and SpaceWolf to discuss their reactions to the seventh installment in the Star Wars saga, Star Wars: The Force Awakens in the kind of sweeping free-form discussion worthy of an epic space opera.
You’ll also hear Episode VII reaction clips from Forgotten Flix / Retro Movie Geek host, Joel Robertson, Movie Podcast Weekly / Horror Movie Podcast host, Jason Pyles, Movie Stream Cast co-hosts Cody Clark and Aaron Thomson, as well as returning guest Jonasty and two contributors that are knee-high to an Ewok.
Have a bad feeling about this? You will listen to this podcast now.
Podcast production by Mattroid. Artwork SpaceWolf.
Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts…
Wow, sorry to hear about you guys having pneumonia! My dad had it last year and it’s pretty rough. I hope you’re all fully recovered and wish you the best of health for the new year.
Anyway, I’ve been looking forward to your coverage of this joyous movie for a long time.
Thanks David, nice to hear from you again.
Oh boy, I love Cody Clark but his review here is depressing me even more than Jason’s. So many of these points of criticism seem like nitpicks to me. Fake science in a Star Wars movie? Plotting of convenience in a universe where events are blatantly influenced by the force?
SPOILERS!!!
And I actually thought the killing of Han Solo was a strength of the film. Not only does it add some serious emotional weight to what might have otherwise been a little too light and fluffy (It had me in tears in the cinema) but I’m pretty certain that Ford would never have come back for more than one movie so what more could we really ask for? A CGI rendering of him in episode 8 and 9? Han Solo is a huge part of Star Wars to me but come on, what better way to have him go out than basically giving him his own movie, because this was a Han Solo movie to me. He’s the same character that we fell in love with in the original trilogy but with far more depth and emotional baggage this time around. And I’m glad he didn’t die in lame scene of self sacrifice where he flies the falcon into the super-weapon and saves the universe. Instead his death was handled in a very human and tragic way. His last act of reaching out and touching his sons face shows us just how far he’s come from an arrogant rogue who replies to the words “I love you” with “I know”. Han Solo loved his son and had faith in him, for a character who used to believe in little more than “luck” that’s an extremely profound and heartbreaking development considering the result.
This new trilogy is obviously about passing the torch on to a new generation and I think it would be delusional to assume we were going to get a full 3 movies of all the original cast running around like they’re 30 years old again. This was the first step in passing on that torch and I think it set the stakes so high that it was totally worth it. It’s also important that the new characters have that same level of charisma and relatability as their predecessors and I’m happy to say that I think they nailed it.
Not that I don’t respect Cody’s opinion. I can definitely see where his issues are coming from but to me Star Wars has always been an imperfect masterpiece. The imperfections don’t matter so long as the tone and characters and sense of fun are all in good working order. I feel that was the case here.
Seriously though, fake science?
SPOILERS
I can understand his reaction if, as he says, “Han is Star Wars” to him. I can empathize. I would have had a pretty negative reaction if Chewie had died.
However, I do think all of the original cast will be dead by the end of this.
I definitely understand it being a blow to the charm of the franchise because Han is up there as my favourite character from the original trilogy too (well maybe tied with Lando) but if Ford wasn’t willing to come back for more than one movie what alternatives did they have? Ben Solo puts him in a retirement home?
I’m just saying, Cody was actually calling Han “Star Wars” so I don’t see Codyaccepting any version of this film where “Star Wars” dies.
Yeah, I guess I can see that being a pretty devastating blow to Cody’s relationship with the franchise
I get it. I love Han. LOVE Han. His death has meaning, and it was timed beautifully. Had Luke died, Chewie, even Leia…that doesn’t fit, doesn’t work the same.
David,
Well said, and I couldn’t agree more.
Thanks for commenting.
He was killed by Benjamin Solo Jr.!
Nice to have TSFP back.
For context sake, I saw The Force Awakens only once in the theater. I might go back for a second viewing, but I might not either. I’m not someone who goes multiple times to see the same movie. In my life, I believe the only movie I saw more than once was Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith.
—ANYTHING BELOW MAY HAVE STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS SPOILERS—
Most of my comments will be in regards to criticism either from this podcast or general criticism that you’ll hear anywhere.
I can’t say I had any problem with the Ren/Rey battle. To me, it seems as if a lot of critics are looking at this as if it was a completely ill prepared girl vs a Jedi master at 100%. It’s not that though. Kylo Ren was just shot by Chewy and even though he was trying to use the dark side with the hitting of the wound to repair himself, we don’t know the extent of the injury. Mentally, Ren can’t be in a good place just minutes removed from killing his father. He could be an evil mofo, but that still has to be taxing on a person. Confidence wise, I don’t imagine Ren would expect any sort of trouble from Rey. Not only is she not trained to be a Jedi, but Ren did just have a successful battle where he kicked the butt of Finn. So it begs a question, how much effort was Ren putting into the fight? If all he wanted to do was kill her, would he have been successful? So there could be some of that playing with your food strategy. Lastly, we don’t know how much training Ren has really had. At some point in his Jedi training, Emo Ren killed all of the other Padwins and refused to answer to the name of Ben anymore. So by that knowledge, can we really assume that Ren is a master at using the lightsaber like his celebrity crush, Darth Vader? And just for bonus, we know Ren isn’t exactly the most calm person ever. So perhaps his angsty mood didn’t help his cause. On the other side, there’s Rey. As we saw earlier in the movie, she can have some success when she calms herself, which is the opposite approach that Ren has in his every day life. Her succeeding may just be a sign that calm will always win over being overly emotional. I haven’t seen the movie eleven times like Brain, but I don’t remember Rey dominating Ren. She managed to gather enough strength to escape her certain death and I believe she got in one lucky shot. So for all of those reasons, I didn’t mind Ren’s failure against Rey.
As far as the lack of screen time for some of the older stars including Leia, C-3P0, R2D2, and Luke, I figured it was the right thing to do. We were already going to receive plenty of screen time from Han Solo and Chewy. This trilogy isn’t about them. I’d rather spend as much time as possible with the new cast because the overall enjoyment of this new trilogy will be dependent on how I feel about them. This is part of the reason why the prequel trilogy failed. The new characters kind of sucked. Then there’s the fact that this is a trilogy. There’s time for the older stars to get in more screen time later. Ultimately, I had the least issue with Luke’s screen time because it was what I was expecting once all of the advertising began to come out and Luke was barely in anything. In the only prediction I got right, I predicted that the film would end with Luke being shown on camera for the first time. I fully expect Luke to receive as much screen time as Han received in Episode 8. For the record, this opinion can also apply to Captain Phasma. I was surprised at how little screen time she received, but eh, I’m sure we’ll see more of her in the next two movies.
Lastly, the criticism of how similar this movie felt to A New Hope. I don’t have any problem in admitting that this is the least original movie of the seven. However, that’s fine. After the disaster that was the prequel trilogy, I thought this set the stage to getting us back to where we needed to be. It washed that awful prequel trilogy taste out of our mouths with a story that we know and love. The key is that Episode 8 and Episode 9 have to be different from Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Regardless of how good the next two movies will be, it’s going to be disappointing if they feel like an updated 5 and 6.
Overall, I loved the movie. I was so happy to see that it wasn’t just one CGI world after another. It felt like you were actually in real places at times. I loved all of the new characters. They each bring something to this new era of Star Wars. Based on the way some of the hosts talked, I get the impression I enjoyed Finn’s comedy more. Poe was someone who didn’t leave much of an impression on me since we wasn’t in much of the movie, but when it was revealed that he was somehow alive, I was glad. I want to get to know the character. Ren is a fantastic character that can be a role model for girls, but is still likable for guys. Out of the entire new cast, Daisy Ridley likely has the best chance to break out into being a mega star. It’s going to be interesting to see what she does with her career once this trilogy is over. Poor R2D2, BB-8 is now the most adorable droid ever created. Love that little dude and I can see Disney selling a buttload of merchandise with BB-8.
For now, I’ll give the movie a soft 9 with the belief that I’d need to see it a couple more times as time goes on before I can be firm with the rating and it’s ranking with the rest of the series.
I think I’m in agreement with almost everything you’ve said here, Sal. Particularly in relation to the Rey/Ren. I haven’t heard mention of this aspect yet on this particular podcast (I’m only about 45 minutes in as I type this) but it’s a criticism that seems high on a lot of peoples lists and I think it’s really ill-considered. Your points disputing this line of criticism are all excellent but I’d also like to add that from the very get go we see Rey leaping around wrecked Star Destroyers and holding her own against gangs of ruthless thugs on a very hostile world. For all we know she’s channelling the force to do this stuff without even realising it and even if that isn’t the case she’s still definitely pretty agile, strong and good at melee combat. We also don’t know that Rey didn’t undergo somekind of Jedi training when she was younger that she has for some reason repressed.
And I feel like people are forgetting that Luke managed to use the force to blow up the first Death Star with absolutely minimal training. I think folks are getting confused as to how the force works because the prequels made it so convoluted but to me it’s always been more a state of mind than something that requires years of intensive training. Luke managed to impress and briefly hold his own against Darth Vader (who’s obviously way more experienced, in control and capable due to not being seriously injured, than Kylo Ren is at the end of TFA) in his fight on cloud city after what can’t have been more than a few days of training with Yoda. And Luke definitely didn’t have as much of a self-sufficient combat background as Rey. And in ROTJ Yoda straight up says that to complete his training Luke must face his father which suggests true mastery of the force has more to do with a coming to terms with oneself and facing up to fears than anything else.
So, in my opinion the whole “Rey couldn’t have held her own against Ren” thing seems like nothing more than nitpick that is being stretched out to ridiculous proportions. I mean aren’t these movies ALL kind of about finding a power in yourself that you didn’t know was there?
I should probably have listened to the whole podcast before commenting because a lot of the stuff I’m saying is being brought up later in the episode.
I’ve always taken Luke being able to destroy the Death Star in A New Hope as simply Luke giving complete control over to the Force. Having faith in the force to do what needs to be done. With this being pre-Yoda Boot Camp, that’s all Luke had going for himself since his formal training resembled playing with a toy rather than actual training.
That calmness and willingness to give control over to the force that Luke exhibited doesn’t seem all that different from what Rey learned at various points in the movie. In that moment when she made her come back, she was probably thinking death was imminent, so emotionally she was likely accepting of what’s happening. That emotion allowed the force to kick in and help her defend herself.
So yeah, I’d completely agree that with the force, it’s likely far more mental than physical.
I do differ when it comes to the fact that Poe didn’t leave much of an impression on you, however. I loved Poe. He was charismatic and kind of snarky but seemed like someone with a genuinely good heart. And I thought the little details showing how much he and BB-8 seemed to care about each other made for some adorable little moments. I really felt they communicated the connection between him and his droid, and also the beginning of a friendship between him and Finn, very well indeed. I appreciate those kinds of depictions of friendship so much because they were so utterly removed from the prequel trilogy. To me, Star Wars is as much about disparate characters being brought together and becoming friends as it is about cool spaceships and lightsaber battles. That’s what’s at the heart of the original trilogy and I feel like it’s an incredibly important aspect that is often overlooked.
Those are all good points. It’s not as if I disliked Poe though. More than anything, it’s in comparison to all of the screen time that we got to have with Rey and Finn. We had enough time the hero and her wannabe savior that we could love them. For most of the film, Poe was someone who we could have loved had he not been taken away from us.
Like I said though, I’m glad Poe survived and I look forward to learning more about him in the next movie. I’d be interested if I end up liking the friendship of Poe/BB-8 more than the forced friendship of Rey/BB-8.
I like Poe a lot, but I could have used more of the bad-ass Poe, like when he’s knocking out ships left and right. Sooooo cool.
Aaron’s reaction warmed the cockles of my heart. Loved his tribute.
Spoilers:
Okay I’m listening to all the theories on Rey’s potential familial ties with the original cast and while Brain makes some good points about the possibility of her being the daughter of Han and Leia who is presumed dead I just can’t imagine the scenes playing out in the movie where Han and Leia reminisce about their past and discuss their son without any mention of them also having a daughter, even if they do believe her to be dead. If this does turn out to be the case it’s going to feel like a case of really bad writing/retconning to me. Leia saying “I shouldn’t have sent him away.” with no reference to the daughter she also shouldn’t have sent away? I’m just not buying it.
And for the record I think the most likely option is that she’s Luke’s daughter but that maybe is a little TOO obvious, especially in a franchise where left-field familial twists are far from unprecedented. Also Maz says that the people Rey is waiting for on Jakku are never coming back which leads me to believe the people that Rey believes to be her family are adoptive parents or they in fact were her real family and actually are dead and she is simply an orphan (leaving the prerequisite Skywalker lineage to be continued by Ben Solo). Maybe the twist will be that she actually ISN’T related to any of the original players?
And that Maz quote is also a potential hole in Brain’s theory. I can’t remember it exactly but it’s something like:
Maz: The people you’re waiting for on Jakku aren’t ever coming back………But there is someone else who could.
Rey:….Luke!?
Maz’s specific point is kind of vague but I feel like her referencing Luke as someone else who could “come back” might just imply that he could come back from exile/to help save the galaxy but only with Rey’s help. It could also denote a link between Luke and Rey from the past. But I think it’s pretty implicit that Luke is definitely not the person who left Rey on Jakku.
Unless it’s like one of Old Ben’s “from a certain point of view” speeches.
Well that’s why it’s just a theory. I was really just playing off of the fact that I felt like Kylo Ren was going to parallel the Jacen Solo story, and it did. So if they keep rolling with that theme we’d need Jaina Solo to make an appearance, and maybe that’s Rey. My convoluted story arc was just one that potentially allowed for that. But really, who know what direction they’ll go? Side note: just finished the novelization of the book, it has many insights not included in the movie. It dragged a little in pace, but it’s worth a read for any fan.
I definitely hope it didn’t seem like I was trying to disparage your theorising, Brain. The points you made were great and I think there’s a lot of value (and fun to be had) in exploring these kind of theories.
I got the concept art book for Christmas which is full of interesting insights into the pre-production of the film and really demonstrates just how insane and inventive some of their initial ideas were. Which just goes to show how even the wildest theory is worth considering as something the filmmakers could be interested in exploring.
I’d definitely be interested in checking out the novelization. I got the impression that quite a bit was cut from the film to get the running time down and notch up the pacing.
yeah, the book has a bunch of cool insights worth checking out! also, if you happen across the force awakens visual dictionary, it also contains a ton of cool stuff about kylo ren.
I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I sincerely hope that Rey isn’t related to Luke or Leia. There’s the obvious problem in that it’s too…cutesy that she’s following the same exact life pattern as her dad or uncle. The Force Awakens is already so similar to A New Hope, we don’t need it to be even more similar. My other issue with her possibly being related is more personal. I don’t know if I’d have as much respect for Luke and Han/Leia if they were her parents. Rey may not technically be a slave, but she’s living a very difficult life on Jakku. I realize there’s concerns about her safety if she is related to Luke, but look at what happened to baby Luke and baby Leia when they needed to be protected. Leia lived the nice life with royalty. Luke’s life may have been a little monotonous, but he was there with two people who loved and looked after him. Both Luke and Leia had someone there to care for them. What did Rey have? She was all alone and doing her best to scavenge enough valuable parts to receive enough food to survive.
Just throwing this out there, but I’d much prefer a situation where her older brother was a Padawan under Luke’s care. When Emo Ben went crazy, Rey’s parents quickly left Jakku to try and find out if their son is okay or just help bring him back to safety. They didn’t intend on leaving Rey alone for long. Instead, they died too and as a result, no one is ever there to try and rescue Rey from her daily life.
This still allows Rey to have a connection to Luke, possibly meaning Han/Leia recognized her, and would ultimately give her a bigger reason to want to see Kylo Ren go down.
(Note – it was only at the end of this post that I realized I was typing Ren every time I meant to type Rey. If I accidentally left in any mentions of Ren, realize I meant Rey. Ha)
Again, I’m pretty much 100% in your corner on this, Sal. I’ve seen a lot of arguments claiming that Rey “must be a Skywalker” because someone at some point said that these movies will be a continuation of the Skywalker legacy. But to me that could read as them just chronicling his influence on the Galaxy. And of course Ben Solo is technically a Skywalker too so I don’t see why he can’t fulfil that role in the new trilogy, after all it’s not unprecedented that the primary Skywalker in these films be somewhat less than heroic (see Anakin AOTC and onwards).
I agree with you that any of the older cast being Rey’s parents and just abandoning her on Jakku alone as a vulnerable child would be really hard to justify from a character perspective. I guess there’s the option that she was kidnapped or ended up there by mistake or maybe that Luke saw some kind of force vision that told him something very dark was on the horizon and that the only way for his daughter/niece to grow powerful enough to face it would be for her spend her whole life in a hostile environment learning to fend for herself. Seems like a stretch though.
Either way, I’d definitely rather she be disconnected to the original cast. I’ve seen people argue that this in some way would devalue the arc of her character but that seems nebulous to me. In a way it could make her rise from nothing even more compelling. And I like your theory that she is somehow connected with Luke’s academy. It could even be that she’s the daughter of one of Luke’s earlier students. If he started training someone in their late teens just after ROTJ then they could easily have had a child. Maybe in a twisted riff on Obi Wan’s speech in A New Hope, Kylo Ren in fact DID betray and murder her family.
Yeah, the Skywalker tie-in is too obvious. I’m betting it will be something significant, like maaaaybe aKenobi?, but not a Skywalker. Maybe a Palpatine? That dude might’ve gotten around…
So Rey is like a female take on Triclops? ( I win for nerdiest and most obscure Star Wars EU reference)
I’m kind of hoping that while everyone’s chasing the red herring of WHO Rey’s related too the writers are just creating an incredibly compelling back-story for her that doesn’t conveniently link her to the older cast. Most people I talk to about it seem to be of the opinion that any revelation regarding her characters past must come from some familial ties kind of place but I think they could have her be of an unknown lineage but still bowl us of over with some other kind of twist in her backstory. Maybe she was the child of someone involved in an earlier incarnation of the Knights of Ren and rejecting her due to her radiating the light side they were persuaded to kill her but couldn’t bring themselves to, instead abandoning her on Jakku (this even has echoes of the huntsman’s predicament in Snow White, so I’m sure Disney would love it). But it’s so hard to tell if they’re going to go the obvious route or try something truly shocking. I just hope they’re focusing more on telling a good story than trying to blow everyone’s mind with wacky twists because the former will ultimately be more memorable and enjoyable.
Thinking more about that Knights of Ren parentage idea I realise that if they ever did go in that direction they could have it be a real twist by revealing that Luke actually killed her parents, “betrayed and murdered them” from a certain point of view. That would be a great angle for the bad guys to work in an attempt to manipulate her. What if Kylo Ren isn’t the only character struggling between the dark and the light throughout the course of this trilogy?
Imagine a scene where Rey, having sensed some kind of connection to her past from him, asks “Luke, are you my father?” to which he turns away and struggles before reaching a plateau of calm and then replies. “No, I killed your father”
The sad part of this episode is that me and spacewolf ended up talking for another two hours after the episode about some of the more “out there” theories on the fringes. Neither of us taped it though.
Ya know, like how Rey is a clone of Luke Skywalker with DNA taken from teh hand that was attached to that lightsaber, and whatnot….
Have you seen the theory that Snoke is the ghost/clone/return of Darth Vader? Because a few of the scars on his head are in similar places to those on the de-masked Vader in Jedi. There was even a theory that Snoke is actually Boba Fett. I’m all for exploratory considerations but man that’s dumb.
I have seen those! THose are by far the worst theories out there. But there is such a vacuum of information out there that people are coming up with all sorts of mad ideas!
It’s a lot of fun. Us fans who weren’t around to see the original trilogy at the theatres never really had the opportunity to feel the sense of utter mystery as to what’s coming next. Not just because the prequels weren’t really worth the bother but also because we already knew the outcome of that trilogy from the get go. This is the first time I’ve seen a new Star Wars movie and had absolutely no idea what direction it might go in next. Very exciting stuff but yes, conducive to some ludicrous fan-theories.
Just thinking more about this and wondering what it must have been like to see Empire Strikes Back in the cinema and have no idea where the story was going to go next. And that got me thinking just how strange it is that what is basically the least self-contained, least narratively resolved entry in the saga is almost unanimously considered the best. It’s my favourite of all the Star Wars movies but it’s kind of weird that a film that is ultimately just connective tissue can be so brilliant and satisfying.
I think audiences these days are way too averse to loose ends.
I’d have happily done so as well, if we didn’t have family visiting. It was a very rough December.
Plus: I have now seen it 14 times. Has anyone else seen it that much? Am I crazy? It just never gets boring. After about 6 or 7 I pretty much knew the script, but it was still exciting to be sitting in a theater with people who were seeing it for the first time, and hearing all of their reactions.
I’ve only seen it twice but I can totally understand seeing it that many times. I think about it every day.
4 times and it keeps getting better. great cast everyone!
I will say, that was my favorite part of my second viewing, hearing and seeing the reactions around me.
So this was by far my favourite discussion of the movie that I’ve heard on any podcast so far. I thought the criticisms were fair and balanced and the conversations were insightful and reverent in a way that just made me want to go straight back out and watch the movie again.
Personally, I loved the film and as a lot of other people have noted, it really captured the wonderful tone of the original trilogy. I can’t say enough good things about the absolutely stunning cinematography, reliance on real atmospheric locations and excellent practical effects (mostly practical at least, more on that later), compelling pacing, eciting action sequences, genuinely witty dialogue and exceptional acting that felt convincing and loaded with emotion but retained that very slightly cheesy feel of the earlier films. To be honest I feel like a lot of the criticisms regarding this films lack of originality are focused so heavily on the more superficial elements that they’re disregarding the interesting and innovative (with regards to this franchise) approach to the characters. A nervous stormtrooper troubled by his conscience, a villain who is actively trying to fight off the good inside him, an emotionally wounded Han Solo that we’ve never seen before.
All that said, I do have a few criticisms of my own. Mostly inconsequential nitpicks that had almost no effect on my enjoyment of the movie but there are a few more serious issues. Minor stuff first though:
Finn’s magic gun: When the Falcon first lands at Maz’s castle we have a brief seen of dialogue between Han and Finn and Han hands Finn a distinctive gun with a sort of phallic looking silver nozzle. Then when Finn decides to go leave he offers Han the gun back but Han basically says “keep it”. Off Finn goes. First Order attack and the next thing we know Finn is saying to Maz “I don’t have a weapon” and she offers him the lightsaber. So where did the gun go? and why make a point of showing Han letting Finn keep the gun if he’s not going to have it in the very next scene when he needs it? I can only assume he left it on the transport he was boarding before he saw the Starkiller attack. But then he has it later on when he goes to Starkiller with Chewie and Han. What’s the deal with that damned gun? But I don’t really care much about a silly gun, I just feel it goes to show how overly edited and disjointed some of the Maz castle scenes seemed to be. It felt as though a lot of stuff was cut out very late in the process and they were left with a narrative that wasn’t quite as tight as it could have been. Definitely a nerdy nitpick though.
Starkiller destroying planets being visible: Now this is Star Wars so I do not expect a realistic approach to science at all but the folks on Maz’s planet being able to actually see the distant planets in an entire other solar system being destroyed by the Starkiller weapon was pushing my suspension of disbelief just a little too far. It’s apparently been explained away as actually being somekind of hyperspace anomaly they are seeing due to the power of Starkiller but that seems like a lazy retcon to me. Still, a total nitpick and not something that negates my enjoyment of the movie at all.
Trench run: No, not because it was so similar to previous instalments. It just seemed a little flat and unexciting to me. It looked stunning but there just wasn’t the build-up and tension there that we saw in ANH and ROTJ. Fortunately it was juxtaposed to some amazing character action on the surface of Starkiller and it’s pretty understandable that the trench run felt a little undercooked considering how much focus I’m glad was put on the stuff happening down below.
Starkiller itself: Another Death Star is already a major issue for a lot people but it only bothers me very slightly. I loved that it was an actual planet with an inhabitable surface but it still felt a little lacking in imagination. I’d have prefered it if it actual sucked up the suns of the planets it was intending to destroy wiping out the entire solar system in one fell swoop. Because having it suck up it;s own sun to charge with a big beam going in one hole only to fire out a bunch of beams from another hole that all went and blew up individual planets just seemed overcomplicated and both elements of its operation could have been streamlined into a single more original and less convoluted concept. Still not a big deal though. It looked pretty cool and made for an amazing setting for the last act.
Now the big problem:
Snoke/CGI
Man, talk about a few blemishes on an otherwise stunningly beautiful piece of cinema. I can’t for the life of me understand why you’d put such an emphasis on amazingly detailed practical set, props and locations only to ruin it all with totally unnecessary and half-baked looking CG. And sure Snoke was a hologram which fortunately leaves room for improvement when we actually see him but I still don’t buy that hologram projections in the Star Wars universe for some reason eschew a photo-realistic image for crappily rendered Mo-cap. I also had a slight issue with Maz and the Rathtars, mainly because these characters stand out like sore thumbs in the otherwise extremely tangible looking world that the filmmakers created (I had no issue whatsoever with any spaceship/technology CG, it’s just the organic beings being rendered in such a way that I feel is egregious) but Snoke was by far the worst. His execution in general just felt miscalculated and rushed to me, like they’d signed on Andy Serkis before they even finished conceiving the character and then felt that they had to put his motion capture chops to good use so the Disney exec’s could get their moneys worth. But that was a case of cutting off the characters nose in spite of his (admittedly already f***ed up) face.
I followed the leaks coming out about the character of Snoke pretty closely prior to the films release because I just found such a mysterious figure that we’d never even caught a glimpse of before so intriguing. At first there were a lot of rumours that he would have the head of a snake (which would have been a million times worse than what we actually got) but than Serkis justified the use of mo-cap by stating that Snoke was abnormally thin and extremely damaged. This sent my overactive imagination into overdrive and I ended up conjuring an image of some being that was basically just an immobile, emaciated bag of bones clinging by it’s finger tips to life itself, paradoxically existing as both a pure Force entity and a physical being at the same time. Weak to the point of being eerily still and silent in the physical world but also immensely powerful because it was able to channel the force directly from the source. It’s body would just have been a crumpled mess maybe preserved in some kind of life support system but would act as a conduit by which the unrestrained power of the dark side could manifest. But what I got was a dopey looking, overly theatrical Harry Potter villain. Some of the concept designs in the art book actually look far more spooky and mo-cap worthy than what we actually got but I just felt like the execution was really off. I feel like sometimes Serkis over-acts (especially with physical gestures) which is maybe necessary to convey emotion using motion capture but it really came through here and all the fist clenching and close-ups on Snoke’s face did nothing to make him believable or even particularly threatening. He should have been a far more placid and reserved character and less of an over-acting cartoon. To be honest I feel like they shot the stuff with Serkis before they were even close to finalising the design and by the time they rushed to render the CG it was too late to go back and realise that the final look of the character probably didn’t demand such trendy yet problematic technology. And that final look is pretty uninspired anyway.
I just really hope that Rian Johnson is aware of peoples issues with this character and takes steps to improve his look in the next movie.
That’s my big problem out the way though. Everything else was pretty amazing. It did what not a single one of the prequels did; it made me utterly desperate both to see the next instalment and to watch this instalment again.
Some of you noticed that the site was down for about 12 hours. luckily it was overnight for our US users. Thanks to Juan for the heads-up. One of the comment plug-ins was broken, so the comments may be a little different until the developer fixes the bug. We had to suspend it to get the site back up. Thanks to Mattroid and especially our tech-Savior Matt Smith a.k.a. Smitty for figuring this out.
Hey everyone.
Loving the shared thoughts on your viewings of the movie. I’ll respond to each in time.
Man, I’m so behind. Can’t wait to listen to this one and jump in on the conversation.
Thanks Dino. I look forward to your thoughts. Also, how’s the kid?
He’s good, growing up fast. Rolling around all over the place, now.
Thanks for asking.
Two great lines from the novelization:
“”Legend says this map is unobtainable,” Poe noted, “How’d you do it?” The older man just smiled, clearly not willing to give up all his secrets just yet.”
“Taken aback, he whirled–to see the weapon land in the hand of a girl standing by a tree. Rey appeared equally shocked that her reach for the device had exceeded his. She gazed down at the weapon now resting in her grip.
“It is you.” Ren murmured.
His words unsettled her…”
SO GOOD! Discuss.
“It is you…”
Yeah. YEAH.
The first one though seems all promise with no intent to deliver. Sydow’s character filled a necessary role, but I think I’d rather it stay as it is, with no further explanation. I don’t need to know why the map is anything other than a map to Skywalker/the temple. It’s implied that it is secretive, so the idea of deriving our own conclusions for its secretive nature and/or reasons for being so secretive is another reason to love this movie.
Remember when the force was just a thing and not a thing created by microbes? Sigh…even if it’s not perfect, having a touch of that back is comforting.
Totally, the book talks a ton about Sydow’s character Lor San Tekka. Seeing as it was based on the script I’m guessing they cut tons of his scenes down to the few minutes we get to see. But apparently he was a legendary “adventurer” and one of Luke’s best friends. Like as in “The people who knew him best said he went looking for the first Jedi temple…” It was interesting to see all of the backstory they gave him in the book, but after he’s gone they pretty much leave it at that. I bet the blu-ray has more of him.
Another good one:
“One downward cut, one quick final strike, and she could kill him…
…’Kill him’, a voice inside her head said. It was amorphous, unidentifiable, raw. Pure vengeful emotion. ‘So easy’, she told herself, ‘So quick’.
She recoiled from it. From the dark side.”
I don’t think she’ll go bad. Just my guess.
All of your Star Wars reviews have been great! Really good job on this one Brain. Solo, I loved the star wars origins. David, you practically wrote a book here. You guys have thought about these movies WAY more than me so I don’t have much to say. Station and Mattroid, I had family over at Christmas too and though it was better than flying 3000 miles to see them, it’s still lots of work/time!
Ah ha. Too good not to share https://youtu.be/JbpgM-JTang
I love the r2 poke. Little too convenient…
Love jnasty